Estate Planning Essentials: A Conversation with Chris Collander

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Dan Drews: Hello everyone and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville Area’s Family Guide. Our goal is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle aged adults, typically in their forties to sixties, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting aging parents while also trying to raise their children.

Dan Drews: We want to help parents age gracefully as possible to reduce stress. Uh, through education and some community connection, it takes a village folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover with expert guests that know the local area very, very well. I’m your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Mr.

Dan Drews: Brendan Roberts, the owner of Seniors helping seniors for the Greater Naperville area. We want to thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great advocate for all businesses to support [00:01:00] seniors in the Naperville area. Brennan, good to see you again. Tell us what’s going on at seniors helping seniors 

Brennen Roberts: Well, I’m glad to be here, Dan.

Brennen Roberts: So, um, seniors, helping seniors, you know, we’re here about helping, uh, seniors sort of age as gracefully and with as much dignity as possible, help them stay in their homes as long as possible. So we do that by offering. Non-medical home care support, which can range from like companionship activities, daily living, house management, personal care, and we do it through a real unique intergenerational model.

Brennen Roberts: So we really focus in hiring active, mature caregivers that have life experience that can really kind of connect with our clients on a more peer-to-peer level than, uh, than a medical client basis. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. Well, Brendan, thanks again for helping sponsor these types of conversation. And folks, our show today is gonna be a good one as we talk about how to prepare your parents and yourself.

Dan Drews: For estate planning for, uh, to help us with that. We are joined today by a Naperville [00:02:00] estate planning guru, Mr. Chris Colander. Chris and his father Dan lead, the very successful Colander law office in Naperville, where they’ve been specializing in residential real estate transactions, estate planning, and corporate law for over 35 years.

Dan Drews: Chris, welcome and thanks so much for joining us today, 

Chris Collander: Dan Brennan. Thank you for having me. Very generous with your guru, uh, uh, qualifications there. Definitely an estate planning professional on my end. Uh, I have been doing this for, uh, just about 10 years. Uh, got, uh, sworn in as an attorney. November of 2020 of 2016, excuse me.

Chris Collander: Um, so just coming up on my 10 year anniversary of that later this year. Uh, our office, we do about 150 plus estate planning clients every year. We’ll meet with the gamut ranging from young clients in their early twenties, starting a new family, all the way to the people that are gonna be aging out, you know, [00:03:00] 80, 90-year-old, uh, families as well that need to get things done and in place, uh, as they prepare for the next step of their family’s journey.

Dan Drews: Well, Chris, we can’t thank you enough for being on the show today and really helping shed the light on the key areas that need help. Brendan, this is a big topic. I don’t know where you wanna start with this. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, well, let’s talk about the big picture, right? So. Everybody intuitively knows we’ve got an aging population.

Brennen Roberts: The, uh, age of the, the 65 plus demographic in kind of Western DuPage County is expected to be like 23% of the total population by, uh, in the next five years. Um, and those people. Almost primarily wanna age in place. They, they wanna age gracefully, they wanna basically age in how they would do it. And then when we think about it, we really think about, there’s kind of three, three main components to helping somebody age gracefully.

Brennen Roberts: And, and, and the one of those is really, the first one is really this kind of like emotional and kind of mental, mental wellbeing. So are they, you know, preventing [00:04:00] loneliness, companionship. Kind of socialization, keeping people engaged. Then there’s sort of the safety and, and, and medical reasons. You know, is their home set up for them to live there?

Brennen Roberts: Do they have the right medical support system around them? And then of course, the last leg is really legal and financial. And, and that’s a, obviously a huge bucket right there. Um, and, and our business really helps kind of maybe with the, the, the top two. But when it comes to the, the third level, you know, our clients need help.

Brennen Roberts: And we see a lot of times that. There’s things they don’t think about until they’re in crisis mode. And at that point, you know, it just adds to the stress and everything they need to do. So I’m, I’m, I’m excited. I think what you’ve got to say is gonna be beneficial for a lot of the people that we work with.

Dan Drews: Well, Chris, let’s start there. Let’s start with the high level basics like. What is estate planning and why is it so important? 

Chris Collander: Of course, um, estate planning is, is very important regardless of value of assets that you might have. Familial situation as well. The [00:05:00] estate planning serves as your only way to have it written down, legally enforceable of what you want to have happen with your assets, upon your passing.

Chris Collander: Also, who you want to be, the people controlling the process of distributing your assets upon your debt. Not only that, but estate planning actually impacts you while you’re alive. A lot of people think of estate planning as just a last will and testament, really. It’s an all encompassing term that’s gonna include power of attorneys ability to manage assets or make healthcare decisions for parents, spouses during their lifetime, as well as maybe including a trust as well, which is a sign that’s in, uh, full force and effect.

Chris Collander: Has meaning during your lifetime and also can be helpful in the event something were to happen to an older parent, allowing for children to maybe step in to manage things as well while they’re alive. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, that’s a good point there too, Brendan. I don’t think people think of that enough as how estate planning helps them even before they pass on right when they’re alive and, and making sure [00:06:00] that there’s a process in place that their family can help make decisions if they’re incapacitated.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I think we come across it all the time where. You know, perhaps the, the, the parents becomes incapacitated or they question their judgment about making decisions and the, the family is set to figure it out themselves about what are the intentions and what do they do. And I, I think, you know, the idea that having the power to say, this is kind of what I want to happen.

Brennen Roberts: Being intentional about it, um, is, is can save frankly, a lot of issues with the family down the road. 

Dan Drews: Correct. Chris, when it comes, when people come into you, do they come in with different levels of preparation? Some folks that know exactly what they want and some people that have no idea where to start?

Chris Collander: Yeah, we, we see everybody, people that have no clue about anything from the estate planning, which is usually what I anticipate. Because, you know, they’re not an estate planning attorney, so I don’t expect them to know all of the details regarding, uh, the estate planning [00:07:00] process. Some people are very well into the estate planning process.

Chris Collander: Maybe they’ve done this a few different times and they’re making updates, and they might come to us and know exactly what they want, or maybe they’ve done enough research or attended the right seminars to know what to ask or what to think about. Um, I say the right seminars because there’s definitely a lot of them out there that might be misleading or provide poor information.

Dan Drews: Oh, that’s interesting. Right. So making sure you’re going to a reputable source is a key part of the planning process. 

Chris Collander: Definitely, 

Dan Drews: yes. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, and I think everybody goes to AI these days now, and, and, and you cannot trust what comes out of that. 

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: By any means. So, yeah. What tr I’m curious, like, it’s interesting you see.

Brennen Roberts: This range of people at different life stages. Mm-hmm. Is this like, do you see any particular like, like what sparks somebody to, like, is there any commonality or is it just a whole range of things like, oh crap, I need to do this? 

Chris Collander: I would say it’s usually three different [00:08:00] buckets of people that we see Mostly you have the younger couples who maybe just have their first child and one of the two couple’s parents, or both couple’s parents say, you have a kid, you need a will.

Chris Collander: And I would agree with that statement. Most of the time before you have a kid, do you need a will? Maybe, maybe not. Depending on financial situation, how things are set up with a spouse or if you’re an individual, how your accounts are set up. Once you have a kid, you definitely need to get a will in place because that will serves as your way to a appoint a guardian.

Chris Collander: Obviously we never hope any of this occurs, but if both parents pass away while a child is still a minor, we have to list who they wanna point as the guardian and will. Because if you don’t have that listed, the court will determine who the best guardian is for the child at that time. 

Dan Drews: That’s a scary proposition right there.

Chris Collander: Yep. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, 

Chris Collander: so that’s number one is usually, again, young couple, new kid. Option two is somebody that doesn’t have a plan in place and their parent passed [00:09:00] away, or they had a friend that went through this process and saw how difficult it can be without doing the proper planning prior to passing away.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. And I would say those are the two main areas. The third area is people that have been wanting to do it for a year or 10 years or 20 years and just haven’t gotten around to it. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, yeah, 

Chris Collander: yeah. 

Dan Drews: Well, I, I have a question. So when you have the, the type of person who comes in for any of those reasons.

Dan Drews: But they really have no frame of reference where to start. How does that conversation start with them? Do you kind of guide ’em through the basics? Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, kind of let ’em know what the goals in general of this process are. 

Chris Collander: Exactly. So when we meet with a client, we’ll sit down for an initial consultation anywhere between a 30 to 45 minute appointment.

Chris Collander: Um, prior to that appointment, we always provide them an information sheet that we ask them to complete to the best of their ability. We don’t exact, uh, expect it to be perfect every time because again, they may or may not know everything there is to [00:10:00] know about the estate planning process. But ultimately, we definitely need to see financial situation at the outset because we need to know, are there financial things that we have to plan for?

Chris Collander: Total value of an estate can make a difference, especially in the state of Illinois. Um, but ultimately we look at that and then we’ll kind of guide the discussion starting with the basics. Okay, you’re gonna get a minimum of three or four documents regardless of what you wanna do. Power attorney form for property power, attorney form for healthcare, and a last will and testament are gonna be three minimum documents.

Chris Collander: We’ll start with, a lot of the times we’ll do a living will, which is a document relating to end of life direction. Um, as well, not to be confused with the last rolling testament of 

Brennen Roberts: mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Dictates what happens upon your passing. So we always start there of the basics. And then we’ll branch off from that discussion of introducing the possibility of creating a trust, different type of trust options, and as a trust needed for that type of [00:11:00] a client as well at this moment in time.

Dan Drews: That’s interesting. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. What do you, when you’re talking to somebody, like, I’ve got four kids, you know, they’re a little younger right now, but like when it comes to, 

Dan Drews: they’re not that young anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: I know they’re getting older, but, um, when it comes to like identifying a, you know. Financial power of attorney or medical power of attorney, like do you have any advice or experience about like how you would advise them to make a selection, a decision, or do you just keep default to um, 

Chris Collander: I don’t tell them who to pick, but my guiding principle is always who is the person that you would trust to make these decisions the most if you cannot make them for yourself?

Chris Collander: And you have to forget about how you think other people might think about your decision. 

Dan Drews: Oh, that’s interesting. You 

Chris Collander: cannot say, oh, I’m going to appoint child one, but I don’t really want to. ’cause child two might be mad. Well, you’re making the decision of what’s in the best interest of not only you and [00:12:00] your own assets, but also what’s in the best interest of the rest of your family and who’s gonna manage these things upon your passing.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, 

Chris Collander: and that might be different from position to position. You might have one child that you trust to be the financial power of attorney ’cause they’re more financially adept. You might have one that is, that you favor for being a power of attorney for healthcare because maybe they’re more emotionally there or with it, or are able to make those emotional decisions and handle those types of decisions in those stressful situations.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Or, or proximity wise. Like I know personally like. My father lived a couple hours away and I, I just couldn’t get to all his doctor’s appointments with him. And you want somebody there mm-hmm. That can attend and help him make decisions before you know Exactly. He was able. So 

Chris Collander: yeah, proximity location, I would say can have some influence on the decision, mainly on the healthcare side when it comes to the financial side, given the day and age we live in.

Chris Collander: Proximity and location doesn’t really make too much of a [00:13:00] difference ’cause uh, most things are done by email or electronically. Sure. Or things of that nature as well. 

Dan Drews: Sure. So you’re almost still parenting after you’ve passed on, I mean, making sure you put those plans in place. Wow. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Brendan, you had some stats and stuff too that you wanted to discuss, right?

Brennen Roberts: Well, I was interested in this, uh. Preparing for this, but this is, and I, we see this all the time, like, um, this was from the, uh, 2025 annual estate planning report, uh, recent study. And it said, so 83% of people, if you know, you ask ’em, is estate planning important? And they all said yes, but yet only 31% of those people actually had a wealth.

Brennen Roberts: Like, is this. Is it, do you, do you kind of see this difference in people you talk to? 

Chris Collander: I would say that that sounds about right. I don’t know if I could speak to the specific statistics of our office, but based on the initial conversation that I will have with clients, that could range anywhere from age of 35 to 85.

Chris Collander: I [00:14:00] would say more than half of them come into our office and don’t have a will in place. Hmm. Regardless of age, regardless of situation. You name it, they come in and say, yeah, we’ve been wanting to do it for 10 years, or five years or 20 years, and just haven’t gotten around to it. And they’re finally there to, to get started.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, and by the time you’re talking to ’em, they probably already figured out like, oh. I need to, I need to do that. There’s this whole entire 79 or, you know, 69% of the population that’s not coming in to talk to you. Yeah. So it was kind of interesting. They, they listed out like these were kind of the main reasons why people are doing it.

Brennen Roberts: I’m wondering maybe if this lines up with kind of what you think and maybe you can kinda, if anybody’s out there feels any of these why they shouldn’t be, why 

Dan Drews: should they get, why should they get over themselves? 

Chris Collander: Yeah. I would say the top two are, are for sure things that we hear a lot. Just haven’t gotten around to it or they think they don’t have enough assets to do.

Chris Collander: The process itself. If you have [00:15:00] any sort of asset, it’s beneficial to have something in place because if you don’t have a will in place and your assets don’t have any beneficiaries listed on them, they go back into your estate, which your will would control if you had one. But if you don’t have a will and you don’t have beneficiary assets and the state that you reside in at the time of your death.

Chris Collander: It’s gonna tell us who the beneficiaries of your estate are. Now, let’s not think that that means it goes to the state because that only happens if we cannot find anybody out there that is related to you by blood. No matter how many links in the genealogy chain, they are may or may not be away from you and whether or not you never knew they existed.

Chris Collander: If we can find somebody that’s related to you by blood, they’re gonna be an heir. They’re gonna get the money. Not the state that you live in, but if you can’t find anybody out there, then yes, your money might as cheat or as cheap to the estate would be the legal term for that. Meaning going to the state that you live in, 

Dan Drews: regardless if you love this person or hated them, they might [00:16:00] end up with whatever assets you had.

Dan Drews: Yes. Is this what they call probate? Is that what that refers 

Chris Collander: to? So probate court is just the county court system. Okay. Overseeing the distribution of the assets mainly. Also appointing guardianship for any minor children, but the probate court process is simply the distribution of any assets that don’t have a beneficiary included on them.

Chris Collander: That were owned in your own individual name at the time of your passing. Hmm. You go to probate court, the, I guess the public good concept that is insured there is that the assets go to the appropriate beneficiaries, and so therefore we have the court system overseeing that process. But if you have a will or if you don’t have a will.

Chris Collander: If you go to probate court, unless you do the certain things to avoid it. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: A lot of big misconception is that a will avoids the probate court process, but that is just a misconception. The will directs probate court what you want done versus the state telling us what you want done. 

Dan Drews: Got it. Right. So it’s, it’s [00:17:00] given the game plan for where you want your things to go.

Chris Collander: You got it. 

Dan Drews: Got it. Okay. Wait, that, that sounds like a scary proposition to give. You know, a government entity that much control if you haven’t put together a game plan, like you said. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: And how, in your experience around here, like what, what does that, how long does that process take to get through, you know, if you’re an heir and you have a parent that either has a will or doesn’t have a will.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: You know, 

Brennen Roberts: is it 

Chris Collander: takes a long time, right? Yeah. If you’re gonna go to probate court, on average in Illinois, 12 to 18 months, if not closer to 24 months, potentially. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: Really the quickest you can do, it’s gonna be seven to eight months, because once you open the probate case, you then have to file a public notice of death and a local publication, like a newspaper, a circulation of some sort.

Chris Collander: Once you file that public notice of death, then there’s six more months that have to pass that allow for creditors to come forward in that six months, because unfortunately, when we die. [00:18:00] Our debts don’t die with us. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Chris Collander: They’re gonna continue on, and now they pass over to the estate. Now they don’t pass your children or any other beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: Only you and what you owned are gonna be liable for your own debts. But if we go to probate court once we file, usually it’s gonna be 2, 3, 4 weeks after that of when the first public notice goes out. And then you gotta wait six months for any creditors to come forward. Creditors that come forward in that six months against the estate have a valid claim.

Chris Collander: For any debts or obligations that are owed by that decedent, if they don’t come forward in the six months, they then lose their right to make the claim for debts or obligations against the estate. So at a minimum, you’re open six to eight months because you gotta have the six month claim period pass.

Chris Collander: And if no claims come forward, you could wrap up the estate, you know, within a month after that. But on average, you’re looking at 12 to 18 months whenever you open a probate case. The next continuance date the judge is gonna give you is gonna be a 12 month date. Wow. ’cause they’re not [00:19:00] expecting you to get it all wrapped up in those first 12 months or get it wrapped up in 12 months and close it at that 12 month date.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Wow. And if the creditors are coming in and then that goes to the probate judges to say you as the financial power of attorney, need to pay that, or how does that process work? 

Chris Collander: Uh, good question. Uh, power of attorneys cease to have any meaning upon your debt. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: Power of attorney forms are only valid while you’re alive.

Brennen Roberts: Uh, 

Chris Collander: so upon your death, either the will controls or a trust would control, or if you don’t have a will, then no, no documents are gonna control. But ultimately, the executor, 

Brennen Roberts: the executor yes. 

Chris Collander: Person that you appoint within your will, or if you don’t have a will, the person that petitions the court to be appointed and gets approved by the judge 

Brennen Roberts: mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: Steps in. And once they’re appointed as executor. They get issued what are called letters of office, at least that’s what they’re called in Illinois. Letters of office now show that you’re the acting authority over the assets of the estate. So whatever assets were owned by that decedent. If I’m the [00:20:00] executor, I have letters of office, I can now get access to those assets, managing the assets, making the distributions as well.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Or in the event of creditors coming forward, well now we have to look at the line of creditors ’cause there’s certain, um, hierarchy of who gets paid first. Okay. Now, if the estate has enough money to cover all the debts, well then all the debts are gonna get paid and whatever’s left over goes to the beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: At the end of the day, 

Dan Drews: wow. 

Chris Collander: If the estate doesn’t have enough assets to pay all the debts, well then we shrink the debts down on a prorated basis and pay ’em all out and the beneficiaries wouldn’t get anything. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. That seems like an absolute mess if you don’t kind of prepare for that moment. And, and Chris, that’s one of the things we talk about is.

Dan Drews: You know, not only the seniors and how they can prepare, but our, uh, sandwich generation audience members from 40 to 60-year-old. Do you see a lot of that and or what kind of coaching would you give for people kind [00:21:00] of in our, I guess, generation that are kind of trying to prepare their parents? ’cause some of our.

Dan Drews: Or I’ll just use my example. My parents can be very stubborn and so I kind of had to approach it a little gingerly when kind of saying, Hey, what do we have in place? And, and, uh, how can I make sure and support whatever your plans are. 

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Yeah. As far as a approaching a parent and things of that nature, ideally, if you can do some of the legwork on your own mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: Of figuring out their own financial situation. And status as far as what assets do they have? How are those assets owned? Are they jointly owned? Are they individually owned? Obviously that might be easier for some kids to do for their parents than others. As far as best way to approach it with the parents, if you have a lot of that info up front, then you can kind of do some of that like work that they don’t wanna have to worry about doing.

Chris Collander: Um, ’cause that’s, I think, another. Maybe [00:22:00] barrier. That thing of people thinking of, oh, I have to get all this stuff in place, or get all these details ahead of time, which yes and no. A lot of people think you need certain account numbers and dollar amounts down to the penny, but that’s not the case. ’cause we’re not gonna list your assets in the documents.

Chris Collander: The documents are gonna be all encompassing, controlling whatever you owned. Even if we list them or don’t list them. So, but we do wanna get a rough value of those assets. So number one is if the kid can kind of do some of that, like work on their own. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: That’s a good starting point. Um, as far as the best way to approach it, that’s gonna vary from family to family, from child to parent based on their relationship, based on parents, uh, current, you know, situation, whether that’s health wise or mentally wise as well.

Chris Collander: Um, because I think you are correct in thinking that. When we’re getting to that dealing of parents that are older, they are more likely to be more stubborn and maybe not wanna do it at all. 

Dan Drews: [00:23:00] Yeah. Or, or at least closed off. I find some folks are just really protective of that information. Mm-hmm. Which I get to some degree.

Dan Drews: Yeah. But I think they could be unknowingly causing problems for their kids that they didn’t intend to. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: I think it’s people are. People don’t like thinking about their own mortality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They don’t wanna do it. So, I mean, there, there was this other stat, uh, like, I was like, wow, you know, just, I think it’s like having some conversation and even at this point, like 52% of adult children don’t even know where their parents store their estate document.

Brennen Roberts: So maybe you had like. Uh, I think, uh, I think this is what dad’s wishes were, but I’m not really sure and I don’t know where they’re at. So, you know, that shouts to me like at least like, Hey mom, dad, have you done estate planning? At a minimum, have you done it? And where are, where, where can I find that stuff in case of emergency?

Chris Collander: Yeah. Um, I will get too many calls each year trying to find mom and dad’s. Will mom and dad’s [00:24:00] trust after mom and dad have passed away? Or maybe mom and dad are maybe not mentally coherent anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Living in assisted living or memory care and the parents or the kids know there’s something but have no idea where to find it.

Chris Collander: And unfortunately, it’s all kept private. There is nothing out there. There is no public database, there is no database at the county. There’s no place that we filed the wills. There’s no place we filed any trust or any power of attorneys. The will only gets filed upon the person’s death never before that point in time and asking.

Chris Collander: They tried to ask me, well, how do I know who did the work? Well, either mom or dad’s gotta tell you, or you gotta find something and try and call around, right? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: But again, there’s no publicly available of who did the work or anything of that nature. So ultimately, what we always recommend to our clients when they leave [00:25:00] and complete the estate planning process, we recommend they’re gonna wanna create a list of certain things.

Chris Collander: Number one is asset details, account numbers. Logins, usernames for passwords and online accounts, given how everything is tech digital now. Mm-hmm. And technologically advanced. Um, including how assets are owned, whether they’re jointly owned, individually owned, are they in a trust? Do they have a beneficiary listed on ’em?

Chris Collander: And then also, where are the documents kept? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Where do we keep the paperwork? And now maybe you don’t wanna share a lot of the asset detail with. Your beneficiaries while you’re live, but sharing the paperwork with the people while you’re live, in my opinion, usually no harm. In doing so, there’s no identifying information.

Chris Collander: The only time people don’t wanna share is because they’ve picked one child over the other and they don’t want the other child to be offended. Kind of like we had talked about at the beginning of our, uh, discussion. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Chris Collander: Um, 

Brennen Roberts: we came across this stat we were looking at, it was like the amount of like life insurance that [00:26:00] goes unclaimed every, it’s like mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: It’s like. I don’t know. What was the number? It was like the bill. It was in the billions, you know, just sitting out there. ’cause nobody’s put a claim on it. They haven’t connected just a death notice. Like when my father passed away, I remember he had told me and he had done a nice job, um, of listing out his.

Brennen Roberts: Stuff when he got remarried, but that was 20 years old. So that insur life insurance policies had probably been bought and sold like three times in that process. So it was, 

Chris Collander: that’s correct. 

Brennen Roberts: It was like a treasure hunt trying to like track down and then at the end you kind of run into a dead end. You’re like.

Brennen Roberts: All right. We don’t have a record. I’m like, uh, okay. You know, I’m like, well, does that mean he stopped paying it or I just did. I couldn’t find it. You 

Chris Collander: know? 

Brennen Roberts: Yep, 

Chris Collander: exactly. So that’s why it’s always important to list your assets. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: And I always tell my clients, update it at least once a year. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Usually around tax time is the easiest time to do so.

Chris Collander: ’cause you’re gathering all your financial information anyways. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: But to that point, I could give two easy stories about the [00:27:00] importance of that. Um, when I first started working, we did a probate matter in Cook County, which we don’t do those anymore ’cause Cook County and again, solo practitioner. Mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: So time is limited in the ability to do that. However, we did a probate matter in Cook County, did everything, and about two and a half years after we closed the probate case, get a call from the daughter of the dad that had passed away. And they found a stock account that dad had worth $300,000. Hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Whoa.

Chris Collander: Two and a half years after he passed, they found her. Oh my. Wow. ’cause if you don’t tell us what you got, we gotta try and find it. 

Brennen Roberts: That was a pleasant surprise. 

Chris Collander: And whether that’s sifting through your mail for 12 or 18 months to figure out what the heck you own, it’s a lot easier if you can tell us. 

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Chris Collander: The other one is I stepped up for another attorney in the area. He had a conflict, so he asked me to cover his court case That date, it was very simple, just stepping up. He needed a continuance. That was [00:28:00] about two months ago, and that probate matter was first started in 2008. 

Dan Drews: Oh my goodness. 

Chris Collander: Because on that one, there is a retirement plan that the dad had.

Chris Collander: From a job and working and that retirement plan had been sold so many times that they have been trying since 2008 to find out who the current holder of that retirement plan is. 

Brennen Roberts: Oh my 

Chris Collander: gosh. And here we are 18 years later after dad has passed and the executor is still trying to hunt down that. Plan.

Dan Drews: That’s gotta happening. 

Brennen Roberts: Good for him for being persistent, but man, man, that’s crazy. That’s crazy. 

Dan Drews: I, I think this the, the whole planning piece too, it really speaks to being able to deal with the worst case scenario when the worst case scenario happens. Right. And we got in this conversation with my mom and dad about.

Dan Drews: Uh, not only the financial part and logistics, but [00:29:00] also what do you want us to do with you, you know, burial and such. You know when, when you pass on, and I think that’s a big part of the conversation, to make sure that there’s not unneeded pressure on the kids. You’ll appreciate this being of the avid golfer that you are.

Dan Drews: My dad says he wants to be cremated and sprinkled on a couple specific golf col, uh, course holes. So, uh, I had to write that down and, uh, find a way to make that happen for him. So just a 

Brennen Roberts: couple of specific goals, not number four, though, that one would always eat me up. So 

Dan Drews: Chris, in your situation, do you ever have to get involved and or try to referee family dynamics very often or are you more just try to, try to keep them on task with what they’re trying to do?

Chris Collander: Try to keep them on task? Um, occasionally, yes, but ultimately that’s not my job. Whenever that starts to occur, it’s usually you have maybe a child that’s trying to be put, providing input. Well, the [00:30:00] child’s not my client, mom and dad are my client. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, occasionally, not often. If child will come to the appointment, the consultation, the signing, most of the time that happens.

Chris Collander: Nothing wrong. Maybe mom or dad just need a ride. They don’t drive or they aren’t able to drive or who knows what. And however, though there are certain instances where you can start to feel it. Mm-hmm. And then where you’ve done it enough where maybe there is some sort of a different relationship going on here or a different background that maybe we need to try and figure out or suss out.

Chris Collander: Um, in those instances you might ask so and so to step out of the room, I need to talk about something specifically with mom or dad alone. Um. But as far as that, we always have to remind in those instances, the easiest way to deal with it is I have to remind those people that are trying to step in, that they’re not my client, that my job is to represent mom or dad or brother or sister.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Whoever it might be. And that is my client and my job is to put their wishes onto the [00:31:00] paperwork, not to put. The person is trying to influence wishes onto the 

Dan Drews: paperwork. Good for you, good for you. Being an advocate, a strong advocate for 

Chris Collander: those people. Yeah. It’s not always easy. It’s not always, um, 

Dan Drews: probably create some awkward 

Chris Collander: situations.

Chris Collander: It does create some awkward situations. Um, as well. Most of the time you feel those situations out and you determine there’s no, nothing wrong going on. We have to make sure, ultimately, at the end of the day as well, because the documents are only enforceable if they were done of that person’s free and voluntary will.

Chris Collander: If there was any duress, undue influence, you name it. Well, now it’s a Challengable document in the court of law. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Interesting. 

Brennen Roberts: Kinda I’m curious about, um, you know, we talked about the. Extent of estate planning. We didn’t talk about like trust, like family trust. Mm-hmm. Like when do, when do those come into play and like when do you recommend those and 

Chris Collander: Sure.

Brennen Roberts: What are the pros and cons 

Chris Collander: of 

Brennen Roberts: those? 

Chris Collander: Um, the biggest benefit that 99.9% of people all would get from a living [00:32:00] trust is to simplify the distribution of assets upon your debt. Because again, we were talking about probate court earlier, you only have to go to probate court again for anything that you own. In your own individual name and that you failed to list a beneficiary on you.

Chris Collander: Avoid probate court for any assets that have beneficiaries on them. If an asset has a beneficiary on it, all that that beneficiary needs is usually a death certificate. Notify the financial institution, fill out some paperwork, get access to the funds or the account within, you know, a relatively short period of time of starting that.

Chris Collander: Process. The other way to avoid probate for most people is honing assets in the name of a trust. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: So, a living trust is a way to set up and it’s a document that is valid while you’re alive in most situations. That living trust doesn’t actually change anything for your purposes while you’re alive, except maybe the title on certain accounts, real estate, wanting those things owned in trust.

Chris Collander: Bank accounts usually is well owned in [00:33:00] trust when it comes to investment ary assets, those are things we wanna consider other financial considerations as well. But anything that’s owned in a trust also avoids probate court. Now, while you’re alive, you’re the trustee and you’re the beneficiary of that trust.

Chris Collander: And all the trust does is basically a state that the trustee, the person managing the assets, has to do so in the best interest of the beneficiary. So if you’re the trustee, you’re the beneficiary, manage all your own assets for your own benefit while you’re alive, nothing changes, but upon your passing, then our trust terms change.

Chris Collander: If it’s an individual trust or if it’s a joint trust in both the creator’s pass, then the trust terms change. You have a successor trustee and instead of going to probate court, whatever assets that are owned in a trust pass outside of probate court as well. Once you pass. And I have a death certificate.

Chris Collander: I can then be the acting trustee. If I was the initial successor, you pass, I have a death certificate, I’m now acting. And the moment I have that death certificate, [00:34:00] whatever’s zoned by the trust, I can start managing, getting access to almost immediately. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: And that happens outside of probate court as well?

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So for the 99.9% of all people, the biggest benefit is simplifying, avoiding probate, avoiding that 12 to 18 month process, avoiding the. Up to 10 plus thousand dollars of cost for probate court as well. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Um, so those are ways to simplify the process. Now there are all sorts of trusts out there, and another big misconception is I don’t have enough money for a trust.

Chris Collander: That could be the case. You know, if you’re 85 years old, you own one home, you have a bank account and an IRA and that’s all you have, and you know that you’re gonna live in this home until you die, well then the trust is probably overkill. ’cause we can have a beneficiary on real estate in Illinois. And if all the other assets have beneficiaries on ’em, then we don’t need to trust.

Chris Collander: We avoid probate court by having the beneficiaries. But let’s say you might be moving outta state. [00:35:00] You are not certain that you’re gonna pass away in this house. Or you have things that you wanna control beyond just giving assets equally to beneficiaries. Maybe you want assets to go in different percentages to beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: So in those instances, a trust can be helpful, be by avoiding probate and also bringing in those additional terms that you wanna have in place. ’cause if we wanna avoid probate by beneficiaries, most assets only allow you to designate people as equal beneficiaries. Mm-hmm. Let’s say you want 90% to go to so and so and 10% to go to the other person.

Chris Collander: Well, then we wanna list a trust, maybe as a beneficiary in that situation as well, to control those splits and percentages there. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Interesting. 

Chris Collander: Okay. Now there’s other reasons to create trust as well. Estate tax planning, which of course, Illinois is one of 15 estates or 15 states that have an estate tax.

Chris Collander: 35 don’t, DC does as well. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, if you’re under [00:36:00] $4 million in assets, which most people don’t have to worry about for the most part. Then we don’t need to worry about the estate tax planning. But if you’re a married couple and you’re jointly over $4 million, well now we need to consider estate taxes.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Because the moment you start passing money to anybody that’s not a spouse, and if you pass away more than $4 million, then there’s an estate tax that would be hit. And it is not cheap. Yeah. Several hundred thousand dollars usually at a minimum on an estate tax side. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: And that 4 million exemption in Illinois is per person.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So if you don’t use it when you pass, you lose it and spouse can’t use it. Ugh. So if you do additional planning though, you can combine the two, four millions between a spouse, the to $8 million to combine together. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: On the Illinois level. Yeah. The federal estate tax, we don’t have to worry about for the moment for most people.

Chris Collander: ’cause that’s 15 million per couple. And I phrase that as per couple because it’s seven and a half million per person. But if one spouse passes, [00:37:00] as long as the surviving spouse is not remarry. They can use both spouses exemptions upon a second person to pass. That’s on the federal level, but not allowed on Illinois level.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: So if you feel you pay enough in taxes already, best to do some planning to not give the government anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It’s probably safe to say you don’t get a lot of people coming and listing out the state of Illinois as a beneficiary on their states. Right. So, you know, but I mean, it’s true. I think you, like, you work your whole life.

Brennen Roberts: Hopefully you’ve saved up a little money and you wanna pass it down. I think, you know, I think one of those reasons, it’s like, oh, it’s too costly. It’s like, well, you know, it’s gonna cost a lot more money. And potentially taxes, uh, tied up in probate court. You know, it, it’s, it really, if you do the math on it, it really makes much more sense to plan.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Generally, generally speaking, an estate plan is gonna be cheaper than going to probate court. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So spend the money now, don’t spend it later. 

Dan Drews: I think of it just from a parent perspective too. I mean, you go through your whole life trying to take care of your kids. Yeah. [00:38:00] You should also take the time and energy to make sure your estate is set up in such a way that on the unfortunate time, when you do pass away, that it’s not a burden to them.

Dan Drews: That they’ve got a game plan, that it’s not some situation where family members will be bickering with each other. Right. I think, I think that’s probably one of the last most important parental things you need to do. So, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah. Yeah. I, you met any other unique things about like. Do Page or the state of Illinois?

Brennen Roberts: I mean, you mentioned we have an estate tax in the state. Mm-hmm. Anything else? I mean that, I think we talked about this. 

Chris Collander: Yeah. Other way. Yeah. I mean, Illinois does allow for avoiding probate court as well if the value of an estate is under $150,000. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, so if you’re estates under 150,000, don’t own any real estate, then you can avoid probate court as well.

Chris Collander: Generally speaking, it’s still a good idea to have a will. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Because again, if you don’t have a will. And the state’s gonna tell us what to do with those assets [00:39:00] if you have a will. And even if you’re avoiding probate court by having 150,000 in Illinois, you still file the will. The will is still gonna control the distribution of those assets, but still avoids probate court.

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: So that’s at least a beneficial thing to have that will in place as well, even if you don’t think you need it. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Brendan, it sounds like one of the biggest things, and I know you’ve seen it too, is just making sure there’s communication. Between yourself and your parents as to what’s the game plan and you know what to do when that terrible day comes.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, and I think it, you gotta be able to do it in a way that doesn’t feel like, how much am I gonna get? You know, it’s, it’s really about, you know, again, people you work your whole life. The last thing you, you wanna. You want things to happen the way you want them to happen. And you know, we talk about living and aging as gracefully as possible, but it’s really about dying gracefully and, and helping, helping things go on afterwards.

Dan Drews: [00:40:00] Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: So, 

Dan Drews: yeah. One of the, one of the phrases that you and I have heard used, I think pretty well, pretty well, is mom and dad. What is your ideal. Vision of what happens when you pass on. Right. And, and make them kind of tell you the story of how they would hope things would go, and then try and align your strategy with that, so.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yep. Uh, Brendan, what else? I think we’ve covered quite a bit too, I guess. Chris, any other words of advice you have for our listeners on any way to, to get started or why not to kick the can down the road on this? 

Chris Collander: Yeah. Um. Ultimately, you never know what’s gonna happen. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when, as far as whether that’s passing away, whether that’s something going wrong, whether you need, maybe there’s some, not anything wrong, but maybe you need somebody that can help out.

Chris Collander: Or maybe you are getting to the point of just not wanting to handle your own things because maybe [00:41:00] you don’t have the ability to do so. So as far as number one. Yes, it is a daunting topic, but ultimately let the professional guide you. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: As long as you make that appointment and you show up, they’re gonna try to make it easy on you as possible.

Chris Collander: As far as getting the process started again, and it’s gonna vary from family to family, from situation to situation. What I always tell my clients though is that you did it. Now the goal is don’t use it for as long as possible. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: So just because you do it doesn’t mean you’re dying tomorrow. That’s a a good point.

Chris Collander: Yes. It’s not exactly a fun topic. It’s not something a lot of people wanna think about. My own spouse included didn’t necessarily wanna think about it, but we got it done and it’s in place in case something happens. 

Dan Drews: So you mean to tell me the. Estate [00:42:00] planning attorney even had to have a difficult conversation with his wife on getting it all done, huh?

Chris Collander: Of course. Yeah. We don’t, I mean, we were new parents. Yeah. The 3-year-old and the 1-year-old, and you know, we were enjoying our life. And of course you don’t wanna have to think about, what if I pass away and leave this young child here? 

Dan Drews: Yeah, no 

Chris Collander: good 

Dan Drews: point. But 

Chris Collander: by ing the necessary steps, we have it written down of.

Chris Collander: If something were to happen, hopefully our wishes are followed of who they’re gonna go to live with and who’s gonna manage their assets from a financial side, and how are those things all gonna be dealt with and handled in the event, something were to happen that we don’t plan for. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. Well listen you, this conversation has been tremendously helpful.

Dan Drews: We can’t thank you enough. If people need to get started, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you? Get started and kind of use your expertise to kind of help ’em down this path. 

Chris Collander: Of [00:43:00] course. So our website, usually the easiest way, we have a contact us form on there, calendar law.com. Fairly easy to remember.

Chris Collander: Go on there. We have a contact form. If you submit that contact form, it comes directly to my email and one of my other paralegal’s emails as well. And you should hopefully get a response from us in about 24 to 48 hours. 

Dan Drews: That’s fantastic. Well, Chris, thank you for all you do for the Naperville area community and such too.

Dan Drews: You’re, you’re a huge asset, Brendan. Thank you again for helping sponsor and foster these types of conversations to allow not only the sandwich generation, but our seniors know. How to tackle these type of topics. Yep. We definitely appreciate it and uh, for seniors helping and seniors as well. 

Brennen Roberts: So yeah, they’re, they’re not easy topics.

Brennen Roberts: They’re not complicated. That’s why there’s professionals like Chris around to help guide us through it. 

Dan Drews: Absolutely. So Chris, thank you again for taking the time with us today. We really appreciate the. The fact that we’re gonna help seniors age in place with, uh, information like this. Uh, [00:44:00] Brendan, you’ve been great.

Dan Drews: We look forward to you all joining us next time for our next guest. And so until then, remember, it takes a village, so do your part in the village. Thanks for joining us, everyone.